Unwittingly following on from yesterday’s post about handguns, there’s this article which compares the 9mmP Europellet with the .45 ACP Murkin [sigh] which basically tells us nothing new about the merits or otherwise of shooting one cartridge or the other.
What it did reiterate, however, was not the desired purpose of the piece. What all those stats and indeed the opinions of the shooter showed us is that if you’re going to be shooting a “hot” (e.g. 9mm+P or .45 ACP+P), you shouldn’t be using a lightweight pistol as its platform, either way. That shows up in both the slower “transition” time (to switch between targets) and “reacquisition” time (to get the next shot off into the same target), which was almost as crappy when comparing the regular 9mm to the 9mm+P to the .45 ACP to the beefier .45 ACP+P, never mind the comparison between 9mm anything to the .45 anything.
Well, color me unsurprised. We’ve all known about this for ages — see any of the myriad comments or posts I’ve ever written about the inadvisability of shooting .357 Mag loads in a lightweight revolver — and in my opinion, the author’s selection for his test of a lightweight carry piece, even a 1911 clone, proves the same.
I understand why he did it, if the trend is towards ever-smaller and -lighter carry pieces; but as I said earlier, that trend is not something that should be followed.
Newton will not be denied, folks. Greater energy requires greater mass to provide acceptable recoil.
Remember, I have nothing against lightweight carry pieces — I carry a .38 S&W 637 Lady Smith myself — provided that it is, as it is for me, a backup gun and not a primary carry weapon. And my load is a standard .38 Special and not a +P, because I find the recoil of the hotter load unpleasant in that lightweight piece.
If you are going to carry a Europellet gun [sigh, again] as your primary, that gun should be sufficient to support the projectile you’re going to be using, and shooting it should not be a painful experience. When I do occasionally carry a 9mm piece (because I haven’t yet cleaned the 1911, or just for kicks), it’s a full-size Browning P35 High Power and not some little 2oz 1″-barreled thing, because not only can the P35 handle any 9mm load I put into it, it is also (in my age-befuddled hands) as accurate if not more so than the 1911.
If I had the funds, I’d undoubtedly retire the S&W 637 and get a 1911 Combat Commander as both a backup- or even primary carry gun, then give the P35 to Daughter to replace her gawd-awful little Taurus .380 ACP. (It is her late mother’s gun, after all.)
So there you have it: carry a gun sufficient for the load / chambering if you want good results and wrists that don’t ache for days, and Baby Vulcan will be much pleased.
Here endeth the lesson.
I have several 9mm pistols and without doubt the best shooter in all ways is the Beretta 92FS INOX. A more perfect gun has not yet been created.
Well, there is the Taurus 92 with its ambi safety and decocking feature.
I dunno why, but I find it … touching … that Daughter carries Connie’s gun. It seems fitting. Even if it oughta be upgraded.
Well, I came across a Sig C3 on Gunbroker a while back and bought it. My carry gun for the previous 15 years was a Springfield Micro-Compact V10; .45 ACP in stainless steel. That’s an Officer’s-size frame with the ultra-short 3″ (ported/vented) barrel. I started having back/hip problems from carrying that thing on a daily basis.
The C3 is an aluminum Officer’s-size frame with a Commander-length (4.25″) stainless barrel and slide. Being a short person (5’6″) I’ve found that the grip frame is the hardest to conceal, and that the Officer’s-size makes it easier to keep a shirt over it. The longer barrel doesn’t matter since it rides in a Don Hume strong-side IWB and is pointed downward.
The Springer was picky about magazines; with that short barrel/slide combination it had to run so quickly that even the Officer’s mags from McCormick wouldn’t run reliably…Wilson Combat mags worked just fine.
But the Sig runs any .45 mag just fine, and will eat any bullet type. I tested it with 700 rounds through 24 different magazines before starting to carry it and had exactly three (3) failures to feed…all through one magazine, which remained at the range (in a boot-flattened form) after that session. Ball, deep hollow points, it ate everything even when mixed in the same mag.
In comparison even to an Officer-sized frame (but in all stainless) it weighs almost nothing, but since all of the weight is out there in the barrel and slide there’s almost on increase in perceived recoil. When I compare it directly to shooting a full-sized all-steel Government model you can immediately tell the difference, but as a 64-year-old geezer I really don’t have any issue with shot-to-shot recovery, and I’m too recoil-sensitive to ever shoot a .44 Magnum ever again.
So I think there may be an exception to the general rule of “no lightweight compacts” for everyday carry.
Kim, since you like the Hi Power. What do you think about the new SA-35?
I was thinking the same thing!
Kim, have you had a chance to check out that new SA-35?
Back in my sheriffing days I tried to carry a backup/off duty pistol that had the same calibrer, action and function as my duty weapon. I could use the same or similar ammunition and there would be lots less to think about when things went bad.
My first duty pistol was a 4″ Smith 686. I carried hot 158 grain .38 +p rounds because I could shoot them well and I didn’t see much difference between a good +p rated .38 and .357. My off duty pistol was a Smith 640. A 5 shot stainless steel hammerless j-frame. Since it was steel the 640 was pretty heavy for a small frame revolver, but I had no problem with the same +p .38s that rode in my duty pistol. I still own both pistols and the 640 goes to town with me on occasion.
We elected a new sheriff and he was an old Army MP. As such, he had no problems with 1911s and I carried a full size Springfield Mil-spec for many years. In keeping with the same function and same theme my off duty pistol was a Kimber Ultra Carry II. 3″ barrel, officers model frame. It could use the same magazines as the Springer and I liked the Hornady Critical Duty loads in both pistols. Again the Kimber was a bit on the heavy side but that helped me to control the pistol.
Before I retired in 2018 I found that the arthritis bus had run me over and I just couldn’t handle the full size .45. I bought a Springfield XD-9 because as an old 1911 guy I liked the grip safety. I was able to qualify with it and I carried four 16 round magazines on duty – one in the pistol and three on my belt. If you can’t hit them hard, hit them a lot.
These days my yearly retiree qualification is limited to 25 rounds at rock throwing distances. I still shoot the Kimber pretty well as long as I don’t have to put three or four hundred rounds through it and I have lots of .45 ammo. So that’s still my carry gun of choice even if it is heavy. When I feel like something different the Smith 640 is still a very good choice. I also have a Charter Arms Bulldog .44 special in the collection. I know their quality control has been questionable at times but I’ve got a good one. That pistol kicks but if a guy likes putting big holes in the target and doesn’t care if the gun spends the rest of its life in an evidence locker that’s a good alternative to a Smith snubby. Even if a shooting is ruled perfectly justifiable and legal in a blue state, there’s a good chance that you’ll never see your pistol again. I’d rather lose the Bulldog than my Kimber so that’s my carry gun when my travels take me to one of the People’s Republics.
I may not have our illustrious site owner’s strong wrists, and as such .45 +P is not something I deal with, but I agree that a +P round in a small gun will seriously affect its usefulness.
My winter gun is a Sig 226, which will reliably shoot any 9mm round available with few issues. And you can do a full practice session and be happy with it. My summer gun is a tiny Ruger LCP9, which will handle my preferred +P ammo, but after two mags you don’t want to shoot it anymore. Recoil, even in the Europellet, does matter.
For Kim:
Have you actually tried the tiny micro compact 9mm offerings? They’re actually not bad for recoil, in my own opinion.
As for ammo, I carry the same stuff in them as I do in a larger 9mm – 147g Winchester Ranger HP standard pressure. Before anyone brings up velocity loss from the stubby barrel, let me add that I have chronographed that ammo in both a SIG 365 and a Glock 19. The difference is about 50 fps: not exactly a huge difference, especially when considering it’s a pistol round, and All Pistol Rounds Suck for stopping power.