As Longtime Readers know full well, I’ve never been a fan of the NATO 9mm Europellet in its 115gr FMJ configuration. I think it’s puny and ineffective, and my only personal experience in its application was seeing a man shot seven times with that load, and surviving the encounter (long story, irrelevant to this discussion).
My only other experience with seeing the effect of a gunshot wound up close and personal was at a morgue (also a long story, not that interesting) where the pathologist showed me the result of a single .45 ACP Silvertip bullet on the deceased’s internal organs — “hamburger” would be the best description.
As a result, I’ve always preferred the latter over the former — real world situations, so to speak.
The other day I was browsing among the assortment of 9mm pistols out there from which I’m going to have to make my choice as a replacement for the Browning High Power, which is destined for Daughter’s next birthday present. Of course, knowing me as y’all do, it should come as no surprise that the leading contender is the excellent CZ 75 B, in its original configuration:
CZ claims that it is the greatest handgun ever made, and while we might all quibble over the manufacturer’s obvious puffery, I would certainly have no problem with its appearance in the top 5 of all 9mm pistols, and nor would anyone else, I think.
One of the stipulations I would make in buying any 9mm pistol, though, is that it could handle a “heavy” 9mm bullet. This would rule out any of the smaller- or pocket pistols like the SIG 365, Springfield Hellcat and so on — you know what I mean. I need a large frame to handle the heavier recoil meted out by what I would consider to be the best choice for a 9mm stopper, the Winchester Silvertip 147gr:
I know that there are similar loads to the Silvertip — the Winchester Ranger comes to mind, also in 147gr — but once again, I’ve seen what the Silvertip has done to an actual human being (as opposed to ballistic gel or putty), so I’m pretty sure that it would be a good choice. Current prices for the Silvertip are about a buck a round, so about the same as any other decent self-defense load extant.
With this gun, loaded with this cartridge, I would feel almost as adequately armed as with my 1911 loaded with 185gr JHP. For practice (and only practice) there’s the El Cheapo 115gr ammo.
Feel free, as always, to discuss the issue in Comments.
A 9mm/115 in the eye socket at 25 feet will turn the perps brain to ground beef every.dam.time.
sigh
It’s not the size, it’s the accuracy. always
I didn’t become a 9mm disciple until I picked up a Sig Sauer P226 and discovered that I can pretty much hit anything with it. Quite simply, it puts the rounds where I want them to go just about every time, even when aiming quickly. Since that day about 6 years ago, I’ve acquired several more Sig Sauer 9mm pistols in various configurations, including the P365, the gun I most often carry and one of the two that I registered to carry in DC.
I haven’t yet tried heavy loads in it, however the pocket gun that I carry is much better than the full frame gun that I leave at home.
Excellent choice Kim. The CZ 75 series of pistols as a group are well regarded as reliable, accurate and quite ergonomic.
My EDC for several years is a CZ 75 D PCR, which is a compact model of the 75. In that time, with at least bi monthly range session with extremely varied ammunition, it has been totally reliable and more accurate than I am. The only changes the pistol needs are a lighter mainspring (hammer spring, to remove 7 lawyers from the trigger) and Tritium night sights. Aftermarket Lok grips are thinner and ebay has much cheaper knock offs.
Today being my regular range day, I think I’ll run through another 50 rounds of my reloads through the PCR after I finish with the Anschutz practice. Oh happy days!
I have 75 B, which serves as a house/truck gun, but opted several years ago for the RAMI 2075 BD as a carry gun. The RAMI fits my “men’s cadet” hands better and can handle the biggun’s; my choice is the Underwood +P 147 gr JHP. About .88/round on sale, which is pretty frequently.
https://underwoodammo.com/9mm-luger-p-147-grain-jacketed-hollow-point/
I have a CZ P-07. Basically a midsized version with plastic lower half to lighten it up. I like it a lot and I can shoot it well despite not being the greatest pistol shot. The hottest feeling 9mm rounds (non +P) are the 124 grain NATO rounds (at least in my perception).
Shooting 147 grain ammo actual seems to slow down and soften the recoil a bit. I have Sig 147 grain defensive ammo for carry and shoot cheapo 147 grain such as Blazer for practice when I can find it. The CZ seems indifferent to brass, steel, or aluminum cases.
While I have never knowingly shot anyone, being a Medic in the Air Force in the early 70s, I have seen the effects of bullets on people.
IF I owned any weapons that didn’t end up at the bottom of Saguaro Lake when the boat capsized a few years ago, and IF I was to carry for personal protection, and IF I ever needed to shoot someone, I would want my weapon to be loaded with the meanest bad ass rounds money can buy. If someone was to come out with a round called Meatgrinder, I would purchase a few boxes, “just in case.”
Meatgrinder +P, if you’re serious.
I found the slide on the CZ 75B kind of small to grasp to rack it. I ended up getting a Beretta 92FS used instead. It’s big and clunky for a 9mm though. That being said, a 75B is still on my buy list if I see one at a reasonable price.
JQ
Winchester makes good ammo. These days you kind of have to go with what you can find though.
I do like the Liberty Defense ammo, but it’s very hard to find. It’s lead free and is only around 50 grains. Light but moving FAST!
I also like Speer gold dot made by CCI
Also lately I’ve seen ammo cost well more than $1 per round. 40 bucks for ball ammo fmj
And some hollow points costing 1.50 to 2 per round
Supply and demand.
Whatever ammo you prefer, Invest in precious metals now, before the prices go up.
Fought this moral battle during pandemic season a few years ago. Grabbed an el cheapo 9mm handgun (Tisas, for reference) because of the ubiquity of Europellet. Not disappointed and generally like CZ as a manufacturer, but if I was to get another Europellet caliber it would be a Glock. Not because of any other reason than parts availability, and ubiquity of everything else. Even though it looks like it was designed by a Boy Scout with a knife and a block of wood.
Here is a study of the results of over 2,000 gun shot incidents:
https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power
If you goal is deterrence, then any caliber from 22 LR up to 44 mag works. Generally, the pain of the 22 LR wound makes most, but not all, people run away. That is probably the best outcome for the shooter. Of course, the person shot with the 45 ACP or 44 mag is likely dead. Which is the worst result for the shooter.
I have both the CZ 75B and the Beretta 92. I prefer the Beretta, because it is easier to take down.
Buy it, you will not regret the purchase. Great pistol, easy takedown, great ergonomics. Then check out mcarbo.com for info on their spring kits. Watch their instructional videos, if for nothing else than the info. Another great source is cajungunworks.com.
Consider the Walther P9 – I love mine.
For what it’s worth, I’ll second Drake’s comment – I have always found 147 grn 9mm a little more controllable than something like a 124+P. Nothing is really pleasant in the tiny options but I find neither objectionable in my Glock 26.
So glad I got my Model 85 in 1990. Easily 10k rounds through it, and never an issue. I’m proud that I am in agreement with you. Thanks for the info on the carry ammo.
Truly a fine handgun.
The 75B was made in .40SW also. Has enough weight/size to handle recoil well.
I’m an emergency physician. I’ve spent 45 years as an emegency physician, intern, resident, attending, professor…. I’ve seen a LOT of firearms wounds, from .177 to 20mm (M61 Canon shot a weapons tech, through and through….too close to detonate, didn’t hit any really critical parts going through his chest, the surgeons sewed him back up and he walked out of the hospital 3 weeks later and returned to duty). Also 12ga slugs, buckshot, a variety of rifle/hunting calibers, a lot of AK 7.62 and 5.56 wounds, .22LR, 22 Mag, handguns up to .50AE, one pro hunter that got shot with a .460 Weatherby Mag by a customer….
The most deadly? .22LR has killed more people than all the others combined.
What do I carry? A .45ACP, Glock 30. I might carry a 9mm when clothing doesn’t allow the carrying of grownup calibers… But the rest of the time, it’s the Glock 30. If I am worried about having only 10 rounds I will question if I need to be there at all, and if I do I’ll carry a G21 mag.
I used to carry 1911s.
Please consider survivorship bias and its impact on your analysis. I assume, lacking evidence to the contrary, that you describe dealing largely with patients who made it to your facility and were in good enough shape for you to attempt treatment. There were other recipients of GSWs who were DRT and went straight to the morgue and others who just walked away.
My reading of Ellifritz’s little study tells me that arguing centerfire handgun cartridges is not productive. Statistically, the spread from best to worst in handgun cartridges is just not that great. Even the best .45 needs more than one torso hit, on average, and if you get 2 torso hits with a lesser caliber, you’re as likely to succeed as with the .45.
I carry a P-64 or a CZ-82 in 9×18 Makarov and I don’t feel under-gunned.
Could be, but more people have been missed with .38/.357/9mm rounds than anything else. That has to be factored as well.
And not all shooting victims are pronounced in the field, nor are all my experiences hospital based.
Still, I’m comfortable with the .45ACP. Big and slow, flat nose, just like me.
I carry a SIG P227sas. Loaded with Speer Gold Dot 230 HP. Prefer it to a 1911 or Glock. The fat grip on the 227 is more comfortable to shoot with my arthritic hands, which is why I changed over from the 1911. Installed flat triggers on both my 227’s as it helps with accuracy. The combination of Sig and Gold Dot is carried by the PA State Police so it has been tested. Sig made 14 round extended mags that proved troublesome so they were discontinued. I read in a Sig forum that replacing the mag springs with Wolf springs for double stack 1911 mags worked so I invested in springs. The mags work perfectly with the new springs. Normal mags are 10 round,I keep one in the gun in my holster. At 75 I can still handle the 45 acp, see no need to go with 9mm.
Unfortunately I am not in Free America and I am restricted to carrying a handgun with no more than 10 cartridges of social justice in the magazine. I used to carry a S&W 442 with a spare speed loader. With the rise of various anti social groups starting out a protest and rally before revealing their original intended purpose of rioting, looting, arson etc, I have changed to a S&W Shield in 9mm and a few spare magazines. The first magazine might get some of the criminals to back off but as we saw two years ago in Kenosha, WI, that might not be enough of a deterrent for the assailants. The faster reloads with a semi automatic will be a benefit. The other option is the classic 5″ 1911 in .45ACP. Eight in the magazine with spare magazines might be a good choice too.
JQ
Endorse the 147 grain option, and I have (had, see below*)some 165 grain loads as well. Why, you may ask? Because they are subsonic, and thus suppress well. And work just fine.
Dead Air Wolfman, set up short. Does not sound like Hollywood(which is pure BS), but quiet. Had you made it Saturday, Kim, I’d have put it in your hand. Also fits on a .300 Blackout AR pistol, also subsonic. If I have to shoot you (well, not you, Kim) in my house, I’d rather not be deaf afterwards. Also, same suppressor, on long setup, suppresses 5.56 to sound like a medium-ish .22LR.
*Hypothetically, of course. Any evil firearms I may have once been near are now, tragically, on bottom of the lake the demonstration shoot was held. Hypothetically.
Not sure of your motivation for giving your BHP to your daughter. If you concider it your best 9mm would you consider getting a BHP clone? Springfield SA-35 is selling 1 for MSRP $699. I’m on several lists waiting for one, I could get one on gunbroker for $1000 but wont pay a premium. EAA/ Girsan sells a clone the MC-P35 for $500, target model $600. I just picked up the $500 model in brown cerecote. Have only been out to the range with it once. The magazine disconnect needs to be removed to improve trigger but its good as is. I have a small hand and the girsan fits me well, the cz is bigger in all dimensions.
It was her mother’s BHP, and I’m a sentimental kinda guy. (I’m probably going to give the Springfield 1911 to the Son&Heir — no reason for him to wait till I die to get it.)
I can, without any hesitation, recommend the CZ 75B. I have a pair as student guns, purchased because I needed a 9MM “something” that wasn’t too big for average hands (although small female hands do have a substantial problem with the first round DA trigger) and held up well under student use. I figured that if Czechoslovakian peasants drafted into military service could not destroy it, neither could my students. Plus, His Royal Highness Col. Jeff Cooper recommended it (for those addicted to 9MM projectiles).
My faith has been borne out, plus, mine at least, are as accurate as any mass produced handgun has a right to be.
There is something about the 75 that usually goes without notice: It can be carried “cocked and locked” just like a 1911, and the thumb safety works exactly the same (it could benefit from a more ergonomic safety paddle, but that’s true of most out-of-the-box 1911s, too, and the 75’s thumb safety outranks the one on JMB’s P35 by a large margin).
I would suggest considering the SAR K12 Sport, all stainless with a very nice trigger, reset is a bit long though, most importantly it has the frame mounted safety instead of a slide mount. Single action only however but to a 1911 fan this is no big deal.
If you want to spend a bit more (actually quite a bit more) there is the CZ Shadow 2, which are SA/DA and you do get a slightly better trigger.
Winchester Silvertip .45 was the first ammo I bought for social work back in the early eighties. I never had occasion to use it in anger. I’ve bought various other loads in different calibers over the years and never actually used them either. When the time comes if it ever does, I figure whatever is in the pistol will do. Shoot until the target changes shape or catches fire.
Nine mill rounds propelled from an Uzi worked just fine for the IDF for years and years.
Understanding that I’m late, this is another vote for a CZ 75 variant. Personally, I carry a RAMI B, but CZ discontinued that model. Of the remaining ones, the PCR or P-01 come out on top for me. They’re essentially the same gun, but the P-01 has a rail for a light and the PCR doesn’t. Both come with 15 round mags, and 19 round mags are available for cheap. It should be noted that Mec-Gar in Italy is the OEM supplier for CZ factory mags, so there’s no reason not to save a little money and buy Mec-Gar magazines.
Have a look at what Gabe Suarez is doing with the CZ.