I have moaned before about a) relinquishing my beloved 1911 and b) finding the Browning High Power to be a rather inadequate substitute (apart from its Europellet chambering).
Let’s be clear: this BHP is a lovely gun.
I have yet to experience a single failure to feed, regardless of what magazine I use, and it shoots every single type of Europellet I put through it — hollowpoints, solids, lightweight or heavyweight, it handles them all and says, “Please Sir, may I have another?” It’s also a lot easier to clean than the 1911, which is A Good Thing.
All is well, in other words, except for the trigger which does not come close to my 1911’s bang switch, perhaps excusably given how much work and shooting has gone into the latter by comparison.
And then there’s the Europellet, which I still think is inadequate as a stopper.
For the first time in my life, I feel undergunned when I walk out the door carrying the High Power, and that feeling is unaccustomed, unsettling and unwelcome — which makes me grateful for the extra seven rounds in the BHP’s mag.
I discussed all the above with the Son&Heir over dinner last week and he, bless his heart, suggested that we swap guns: my 1911 back to me, and the BHP over to him. Which all sounded good, until he tried the BHP’s trigger.
Understand that as a one-time TeamUSA competition shooter, he has a far greater degree of skill and control in his trigger finger than I do — and he hated the BHP’s trigger.
So all talk of a swap ended at that point.
Ad then I got these suggestions from the Peanut Gallery my Loyal Readers, who made suggestions such as “I think it’s the gun, not the ammo”, “The other thing to consider is a new 1911 chambered in 9mm”, “I couldn’t carry a gun I didn’t enjoy shooting”, “Sig 1911 Ultra .45”, “CZ RAMI 75BD”, “CZ 75B… CZ P07… CZ P10C”, “Para Ordnance P-14”, “Turkish-made 1911 in 9mm”… and lots more.
I think you can all see where this is heading: get a gun which suits you, Kim.
I don’t think that anyone needs to be reminded that I’m quite possibly the world’s most susceptible gun buyer on the planet. Okay, “gun whore” if you want to be blunt.
Unfortunately, I’m no longer a self-employed consultant paying the I.R.S. over $20,000 dollars per quarter; I’m a retiree on a (low) fixed income and savings that are nearly 80% lower than a couple years back (FJB). But what the hell, I can always sell one of the guns that I managed to recover from The Tragic Canoe Accident of 2014 (-15? -12? whatever).
So if I wanted to stay with the 9mm Europellet — a GREAT BIG HUGE “IF” — then all sorts of lovely guns become available — (hammer-fired / full-sized*, of course), e.g.
Now let’s just turn that “IF” (above) into “Ah fuck no“, and decide that it’s time that my damn body started to man up and just deal with the pain of shooting the .45 ACP…
I think we’re all familiar with where I’m going here:
Option C, therefore, is to trade or sell the High Power and buy the Springfield Garrison in .45 ACP for around $780 (sigh). Then I could just swap the “new” 1911 for the “old” 1911, so to speak:
I mean, why should the Son&Heir have to deal with an old, worn gun?
Your thoughts in Comments.
*my hands are large-ish, so I have no problem shooting a full-size 1911, but I do occasionally have a problem with a gun which holds a 15-round mag. And if I’m going to stick with light (175-185gr) .45 ACP ammo, I’d prefer the Government size over the Commander (which I’ve owned in the past, so I’m familiar with it).
Go put a 92FS in your hand….you’ll be instantly smitten. Everyone that has latched onto mine has been in awe of the comfort and ability be perfectly balanced no matter the size of the hand.
Then, take that 92FS out and give it all you got and experience what it does best. I’ve owned over 90 pistols and NONE has been close to comparing to the 92FS. I have 2 (1 black and 1 silver) and will keep them after selling all others, til I die.
Or, if you prefer a thumb safety mounted on the frame instead of the slide, get a Taurus 92.
Nope, no thank you, and nossir.
While the Beretta is a fine firearm for someone with gorilla size hands, it is neither a fighting arm (although it can be used as such) nor an ideal arm for anyone with hands of normal size.
If a CZ or Glock feels too large for a person, the Beretta will be a poor fit indeed.
Ok, you have settled on a 1911 in 45 acp, not 9mm.
You might look at the RIA/ ARMSCOR offerings.
Many 8 round models and a 10 and 14 round offering.
Prices are very reasonable
And Calib from the Top Shot show rated his RIA one of the best 1911 he had ever shot.
Not trying to change your mind about the 9mm, but there have been huge improvements in defensive 9mm, also 45 defensive ammo.
Go to the Lucky Gunner web sight for a massive review of many different loads, measuring expansion and penetration . The 9mm results will surprise you.
Just fyi, I am a 45 acp guy myself. Preferring something having at least a 10 round capacity.
The RIA TAC with a 14 round capacity has got me all hot and bothered.
Good luck choosing from a huge set of offerings.
And the son and heir is correct in insisting that the trigger is a make or break issue.
If you’re set on a 1911, I don’t think you can beat the Garrison for the level of quality and customer service in an off-the-shelf gun. I have one of their older TRP models (before they made the TRP railed; I find a rail on a 1911 unacceptable) and its the best 1911 I’ve ever owned.
This may sound odd, but if recoil is really the issue with a .45ACP, have you considered an HK45 or 45C? I bought a 45C a while back, and even though it’s polymer, it recoils far less than an all steel 1911 due to the recoil assembly and buffer; it can be set up to run with a simple manual safety and no decocker, so it functions very close to a 1911.
Actually, now that I think about it, why not just get the Garrison and run a drop in recoil buffer like the Wilson Shok-Buff? They’re like $1 each and good for 1000 rounds.
I’m not very knowledgeable on BHPs but I’ve been given to understand that the problem lies in the pistol’s magazine safety. I’m told that the new Springfield Armory Hi Power clone doesn’t have that safety and consequently has a much better trigger. You might want to put a few rounds through the Springfield version If you can find one.
The magazine disconnect makes the BHP trigger so awful. Kim, did you try removing it? It’s relatively simple; there are “how to” EweToob videos. I yoinked it out, and the trigger was much better.
IIRC in an earlier post on this subject Kim had stated that the magazine disconnect had been removed from this particular pistol before he had even acquired it. So I don’t think that is the issue.
However there is always room for improvement, such as looking at parts from Novak or even sending it to him. (Cylinder and Slide, sadly, recently announced they were hanging it up)
I must have gotten lucky when I got my 1983 vintage BHP. I have not minded the trigger even with the disconnect in place. It certainly shoots better than I do
I like to shoot 1911s in 9mm at the range
They’re very pleasant to handle and you get the benefit of having a 1911 in your hand
Some of the plastic pistols , especially the SA XD series and the S and W M&P series, are also easy to shoot and won’t break the bank
I, too, love the venerable, BHP, but the trigger pull truly sucks
I warned you! (See Making the Transition, January 12th.) I knew that you couldn’t resist the siren call of the 1911 for very long. Welcome back!
Don’t buy another pistol. S&H has already said he’d give back your beloved 1911. Give him the BHP, let him buy something HE likes. If you’re so inclined, also give him the difference between trade of BHP and replacement.
Or do something radical like remove the mag safety and have a ‘smith work the trigger on the BHP.
Oh, and tell your Loving Son you want your bullets back too!
I had a similar problem with the BHP I owned. Couldn’t shoot it for crap.
Sold it to a friend and bought a S&W 5906 from another. That one shot beautifully.
My good friend,
I’ve watched you ruminate over this topic repeatedly over the years, and I hate to see you so frustrated as you seem to be now. I have two main thoughts which may help you find peace on this topic.
#1
I won’t tell you about the history of the two rounds, you are, one of the most knowledgeable experts on small arms history anywhere, and certainly the most knowledgeable I know personally. The jury has rendered a verdict on the modern 9mm and found it worthy WHEN IT EXPANDS. If it does not expand it’s a poor contender, indeed. But there is at least one round that reliably expands every time, and that is the Hornady Critical Duty 135 gr FlexLock round, in regular and +p versions (about 100 fps difference, probably not meaningful). It penetrates from 18-19″ and expands to 0.43-0.45″. Every time. It’s on its second contract as one of two (I think) rounds approved by the FBI. While the FBI has become a foul Stasi-like organization of late, they play second fiddle to no other ammo lab, either civilian or military. I believe you said you carry the excellent Sig Sauer 124 gr V-Crown and I would be happy with that round, as well–average penetration about 17.8″ aerage expansion to 0.51″. When Larry Vickers says the 9mm vs .45 debate is over, I believe him.
Now, I’m a huge .45 fan, as you know, and I have 3 specimens all heavily smithed. And I sometimes carry my modified Kimber Compact CDP still, although I’ve started carrying smaller, polymer 9mms from time to time. The .45 does not (yet) bother me to shoot, but I feel safe with the 9mm with the Hornady round. Kim, you may ‘feel’ undergunned with the 9mm, but you are not, at least with one of the above two rounds in the gun for social use. Obviously, carry what you like, but I hope you can stop torturing yourself over the cartridge debate. Especially with the experience you have, and the range time you put in with your carry gun. Shot placement will out, and you, sir, can place your shots.
Stop agonizing over this question, today’s 9mm is not your grandfather’s 9mm, and you are not undergunned with a high quality round. Check out the Lucky Gunner lab results on those two rounds, and then resovle to stop thinking about this. Practice with any crap ammo you find, but carry the good stuff, and don’t worry, be happy, as they say.
#2
Saint JMB’s 1911 has the best trigger on the planet. I state that as a categorical, it cannot be improved upon. No other pistol will ever have a trigger quite as good as a 1911 trigger can be. Now I know you like the Browning Hi Power. Well, let me rephrase that, you WANT to like the Hi Power. You want to like it because it was designed by Saint JMB, because it has a storied history, and because it is svelte and pretty to look at, and you like all of those things. So you should own one (which you do). But it should NOT be your everyday carry gun. You could send it off to any number of high-dollar smiths who specialize in it, spend an inordinate amount of money on parts and labor, and be without it for many months, and it would STILL not please you as much as your 1911.
What the heck are you thinking, Kim?? You have lots of guns in your collection that are there because of good design, storied history, and because they are pretty to look at and a joy to shoot. But an EDC pistol is a defensive TOOL. While you can put a lot of money into it, you need not do so, it simply must function reliably so you need not worry about it being fit for its intended purpose, and you must be able to shoot it well. These are the ONLY criteria for an EDC gun. If you can think of a third please enlighten me.
Kim, let us set this out in its simplest terms, and I think your course of action will be blatantly obvious.
A) Given the caveat that it must expand reliably, the modern 9mm is an effective defensive cartridge. Inferior rounds are not and will be inferior to the .45, but in one of the above rounds, and perhaps a handful more, the 9mm is perfectly adequate for your defense. You may FEEL better with a .45 on your hip, but evidence does not support that feeling.
B) You LOVE, love, love the 1911 platform. You are intimately familiar with its manual of arms, and you are proficient with it. You feel good when you shoot it.
C) Much as you hate this reality, the fact is the 9mm is now easier for you to shoot well, and the .45 is no longer comfortable for you to shoot, and therefore it will be less effective for you in an EDC gun regardless of the differences between the cartridges. Think about that for more than a minute or two. Read that again. Stop kicking against the goads, as it were, and think through this situation.
I submit, with all due respect to your greater firearms knowledge, that you should quit thinking about adopting the Hi Power, or looking for something like a CZ-75 (which I love, have 3 of those, too, all A models), or looking into an HK (Gasp! Tupperware!) as someone has suggested, or any other excellent steel 9mm. S&W makes several which are wonderful shooters, for example. But I suggest you stop all this mental masturbation and get what you know you really need (upon just a few minutes serious reflection), which is a Springfield Garrison in 9mm.
The cartridge is adequate. The trigger will be superb, especially after the first 1,000 rounds. You are familiar with the design and could shoot it effectively in your sleep (figuratively, of course). And you are going to be better armed, given that you shoot the 9mm comfortably and will continue to train with it, which you may not do as much with the .45 ACP. After all your ruminating on this situation, as Nike says, “Just Do It!”
Your only issue here is really that the .45 has become more difficult to shoot well. You had no issue with the gun. Why the heck are you considering a whole new EDC carry gun platform? Stick with what you know and love and change the cartridge!
Cheers,
JCinPA
Kim,
JC in PA is right. Came here to say the same thing. I don’ t know if ammunition manufacturers and designers cut back on the power of the 45acp but 45acp and 9mm seem to perform very similarly now.
I used to carry a 442 with 38+P because it was light, handy and discrete. I upgraded to a S&W Shield in 9mm because recent protests have turned into riots and spring up very quickly. I figure the quicker method of reloads would be helpful. The 1911 often would pull my pants down despite trying various holsters with a good quality belt.
JQ
I have nothing profound to add. You have obviously thought this through. I will add my +1 for Springfield Armory. I bought a Range Officer back in 2017. Zero malfunctions and superb accuracy. I may have mentioned before that I am a fan of Hogue rubber finger groove grips. You might consider trying some of this lube–
https://brianenos.com/slide-glide-firearm-lubricant-review-duane-thomas/
I have not, being satisfied with what I use, but many remark that their guns seemed to shoot “softer”.
BTW, sent you an email on 1/13 about your RFI #1
I’m looking at the photo of the reviewer with the Springer Garrison 9mm and picturing your face under the hat, Kim.
https://www.usacarry DOT com/springfield-garrison-1911-9mm-review/
The difference at the terminal end between a modern 9mm bullet and modern ACP is negligible and FAR more dependent on where the bullet is placed than the cross section of the bullet.
This isn’t going where you think it is.
What is important, then, is putting the bullet where it needs to be WHEN IT NEEDS TO BE DONE.
You need to have COMPLETE CONFIDENCE in the gun in your hand, you need NOT be thinking about the gun, you need to be thinking about the perp, the background, the non-combatants, etc. etc. And when you pull the trigger you need to KNOW where the bullet is going.
Therefore the best gun to have when the fight starts is the gun you *absolutely do not need to think about when the fight starts*.
There are two ways to get this: Get ONE gun and train sufficiently. Get a few different guns and train relentlessly.
You are *way* too old to join a counter-terrorism team or a police officer. This is not insulting, I’m younger and healthier than you, and I am too old.
The likelyhood of you (or I) getting a real gunfight against a “hard” is minimal.
So carry whatever you want, as long as you can shoot someone in the face at 25 yards with it.
Unless what you want is a .22. Then make sure, as Cooper said, that you can hit a pingpong ball reliably at 25 yards.
.380, 9mm, 45, 10mm. Whatever.
Forgot to add:
I’m going to use some foul language here, but it can’t be helped.
Exercise. Mostly resistance exercises. Start with basic calisthenics, then when you start seeing some progress, figure out what to do next–I’d suggest on your budget, with your…attitudes that you get some of those adjustable dumbbells and just do a little bit with them every day. Work your wrists, forearms, shoulders and upper back. Leg day wouldn’t be amiss, but that might be more than one could expect from the likes of you.
Not talking power lifter or body builder here, and certainly not suggesting you do anything with your diet–except make sure you’re getting more protein. But adding a little muscle in the places needed to support the movements and buffer some of the recoil.
Kim: I would suggest a pistol that has 1911/P35 “hand familiarity”, a .45acp chamber, and dbl-stack capacity: The EAA/Tanfoglio Witness in either steel or poly (basically, a CZ-97).
There really is no reason these days to carry a .45 over a 9mm, other than personal preference. If that is what you prefer, go for it and you’re not wrong.
But All Handgun Rounds Suck, and the difference in suckitude between 9 and 45 is negligible, especially considering the deeper magazine with 9mm.
Carry that with which you are comfortable. Period.
Kim I can’t say what you should do, but Beretta just announced the 92Xi. Single action only. Almost is like a 1911…lol. Or I’m also eye balling the Wilson Combat spec’d 92 Centurion. Sweet !!!!
Any quality 1911 chambered in .38 Super will push the projectile way past expansion threshold.
If it’s good enough for Paul…
For decades the IDF resisted all attempts by the Arab world to wipe Israel off the map, using the Europellet. At the same time I was intrigued by a demonstration by one of our magnificent SADF officers to prove that 7.62 was a better caliber than 5.56, when the smaller round punched through steel that the NATO round bounced off. A few months later we swapped our FN rifles for the Galil.
I do like my Sig P227. It’s double stack .45 so you get a decent round count, yet shoots as well as a Sig P226 (9mm, .40, etc.). I like the hammer-fired metal-framed Sigs for the simple reason that I can hit what I’m aiming at. They shoot well right out of the box with stock sights.
I think the P227 is discontinued so they’re only available used. They also make a P220, which is a similar gun but with a single stack .45 magazine that holds fewer rounds.
I know how you feel about the topic… but perhaps keep the .45 and invest in a gym membership?
*Ducks and runs for cover.