Just about every single thing written here is correct, especially:
Gun: A gun is to shoot your way to safety, not to save the day. You are not a one-man counter-terror team. This is a fast track to being killed either directly, by a second shooter, or by police who have no idea who you are. Even if the cops are wrong in the end, you’re still dead.
Absolutely. Other than to protect yourself and your family, leave the gun in the holster and get the hell away from the situation. Leave the hero bullshit to Hollywood or to the people paid to be heroes, i.e. law enforcement (unless you live in a place like Uvalde TX or some big Blue city, where the cops are cowards).
People often think that just because I’m always yapping about self defense that I’m one of those palookas who just can’t wait for a firefight. Nothing could be further from the truth, which is that I’m a big fat coward right up until I can’t be one because then I’ll be a victim.
But to go looking for trouble? The hell with that.
A gun doesn’t make you bullet proof or invincible. I just gives you a way to resist thuggery and equalize the situation a little.
True to what you said, the first choice in a bad situation is to GTFO of the bullshit.
right on.
My handgun is to protect me and my family while we evacuate the area or defend our home. I am not John Wick, Frank Castle or a super ranger seal green beret Marine Force Recon etc.
The best way to avoid shooting a motherfucker in the face, or getting your face shot, is to stay away from places where that shit happens.
From my, now almost 20 year, perspective it is pretty easy to do.
…as Remus has said many times, “Avoid crowds.”
The best way to reduce chances for sure.
I shop weekends between 6 and 8 am before the largest crowds come or I go out late night when the stores are quiet if I didn’t make it in the morning.
Ever since the SCAMdemic, people act downright crazy. They cut you off in traffic; run red lights and even in stores in person cut you in line and reach their hands in front of your face when you are at the shelf getting something
When you try to tell these zombies they are rude majority of them see no wrong in how they act and some get pissy.
The store employees are split, half serve the entitled zombies when they act up out of fear the other half of employees probably are just as fucked up as the assholes themselves.
Best to avoid the masses for sure.
This is precisely why I put up with an uncomfortable object placed in a difficult on person
location, constantly worry about external appearance as well as the many idiotic rules on where you can and cannot be with said object,. YMMV by state, but where I am it is a royal pain in the kester, literally,
I worked at learning karate for 3 years when I was young, but quit when my master’s advice sank in.
When confronted by a violent individual, if at all possible, leave, and run like hell if necessary.
Kim, one of the outcomes you didn’t mention was using your gun, or martial arts skills, or even your pocket-knife, then getting the Daniel Penny treatment at the hands of some leftist loon prosecutor.
Evade & avoid is the name of the game. I always told my tae kwon do students: your best fight is the one you never have.
Indeed. Don’t go to places that are trouble. And your best first defense is to get you and yours out and away from dicey situations. That said –
If an innocent someone is clearly in trouble, and the aggressor/victim circumstances are clear, and I have a means to assist without putting others in danger, I don’t know if I could just walk away. I think I’m just wired that way. Thankfully, where I live and go, that is extremely unlikely. I’ve so far not had to make that choice; the places I go, and my life in general, is thankfully pretty boring.
Second that said: IF you have to use your weapon, my advice (and yes, I am an attorney, and a criminal defense attorney at that):
1) YOU call 911, not someone else. You get to frame the attitudes of the officers who show up; after all, the 1st person who calls 911 is the “victim.”
2) Your first words on 911 are “I was forced to use my weapon to defend my life (or others, as the case may be).” Those words, or how you would phrase it. YOU are the DEFENDER of life. That must be clear. ID yourself to 911, and describe how you will be dressed / noticed at the scene, so the officers who respond know who you are. Aside from this, and the address, of course, do not say anything else to dispatch.
3) At the scene, if possible, HOLSTER YOUR WEAPON. You do not want to have a pistol in hand when the cops come. There, you make the same statement: “I was forced to defend myself/others from a deadly attack.” Speak only in “I was forced to defend . . .” generalities, as to your need to defend yourself, NOT specific particulars. There may be a time for that. At the scene, with adrenalin running, is not that time.
4) Point out evidence at the scene, including video that may be running, or witnesses who may have seen something; don’t assume the officers will get those details. And while you don’t want to get into details at the scene (remember, “I was forced to defend” is your mantra), don’t deny the obvious – yes, it is my bullet in the bad guy. DO NOT GET INTO DETAILS. “I was forced to defend myself.” Period.
5) Do NOT go the station to give a detailed statement, or give a detailed statement at the scene. If asked, politely decline. Beg off with how you are rattled by the experience, or need to go to the hospital to get checked out, or that you want to consult with an attorney first. They’ll understand. They may threaten to arrest you. So be it.
6) Consult with an attorney as to whether you want to go in for a detailed statement or further action. However, if you do, after such consultation, give a statement, give your BEST detailed statement exactly ONCE. Do not let them go back and pick it apart by getting you to tell it again – a favorite cop tactic is to go back over second or third statements, pick out the inevitable tiny differences in details, and use those against you. Don’t fall for that trap. This is my statement; this is what happened, this is what I saw, heard, and did. No, I will not go over it again, this interview is over.
Thank you officer. And leave. Again, if they arrest you, so be it. Give no further statements.
What he said. Also, do not rely on a public defender or unknown lawyer; buy legal assistance insurance such as offered by USCCA. My membership card has a toll-free number on the back which guarantees me access to a 2A-friendly attorney, and the following steps:
1. Follow all police instructions
2. Explain: “I was attacked, feared for my life and had to defend myself”
3. Point out evidence, witnesses and the attacker(s)
4. Request medical assistance, if necessary
5. “I will cooperate 100%, but first I need my attorney.” (Do not talk further without your lawyer being present)
https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/
Now, Kim, I AM a “public defender!” I have the contract for felony defense in my county. And I’m pretty damn good at what I do. I know my local courts and judges and prosecutors, and I’ve been doing this for a long time. I do retained work as well – and I don’t treat them any differently. I can’t. Imagine the disciplinary administrator’s reaction when I say at my disbarment proceeding that, well, I didn’t do much because he wasn’t paying me – it was an appointed case! They couldn’t disbar me fast enough. And they’d be right.
Frankly, for MOST cases, I can read the affidavit and reports, review the relevant bodycam footage, talk to my client, and know within 10-15 minutes how a case is likely to turn out. Which cases should plead, and which should go to trial. I’ve tried somewhere in the neighborhood of 80-100 cases to a jury (I don’t keep track – but few to the bench; that’s another story) and won more than my fair share, thank you very much. And I’ve tried them both as a prosecutor and a defense attorney.
I know it’s usual to dismiss or bad-mouth the “public defender.” But few lawyers know the system better than your local public defender.
Question – does your USCCA lawyer dump you if they conclude you may not have a good self-defense case? Some of these pre-paid lawyer organizations do; If so, you’re not getting much.
I must agree with GMC70, if the situation was clear I couldn’t walk away either. How do you walk away from someone shooting kids? Unarmed women?
I have no illusions about being Superman; I’m not a hard charging 20 year old soldier anymore, I’m in my mid-fifties, fatter, slower, and don’t get to the range as often as I should. That said, I’d rather risk being shot and killed than live with running away and finding out later multiple children/women had been killed.
Saying,”Let the pro’s handle it”, is all fine and well *if* pro’s are there, and that they’re up to it. Frankly any of “us” willing to act, as old fat and slow as me may now be, would have been more effective in Uvalde then the “pro’s” who were on scene who were to chickenshit to do their jobs.
I’m not advocating any of us try to write ourselves into the news as , but I am pointing out that one of the many reasons why we’ve ended up with a society this fouled up is because we (collectively) have said, “Fuck it; that’s not my job, why should I take the risk, let someone else do it.” Discretion may be the better part of valor, but discretion does not automatically mandate “run away” as a response.
Why do I carry a pistol outside the house?
So I can fight my way to where a long-gun is available!